Material is free to use for research purposes only. If researcher intends to use transcripts for publication, please contact Washington University’s Film and Media Archive for permission to republish. Please use preferred citation given in the transcript.
© Copyright Washington University Libraries 2016
Interviews were filmed on 16mm with audio recorded simultaneously on ¼ inch audio tape.
This collection consists of 115 transcriptions of selected interviews filmed by Blackside, Inc. for the Eyes on the Prize: American's Civil Rights Years 1954-1965 documentary series that premiered January 21, 1987 on PBS. The transcripts are retrospective eye-witness accounts of events that took place during the American Civil Rights Movement from 1954 to 1965. Additional transcripts will be added to the collection as they are prepared.
Washington University Film and Media Archives supervised the editing of transcriptions to correct transcriber errors which included spelling of names, places, etc. using Microsoft Word; however grammatical errors made by speaker were left alone. Transcriptions were then cross-checked by listening to the interview for accuracy and completeness.
Digital Library Services performed additional regularization and spelling correction (files should undergo separate spell check process).
Although these files represent transcriptions of speech, they have been encoded with the Tag Set for Drama, instead of Transcriptions of Speech.
The rationale for this decision was that the more formal character of the interview had a structure closer to the drama than the speech tag set, and for ease of delivery of XML.
Preferred citation:
Interview with Rachel West Nelson, conducted by Blackside, Inc. on December 6, 1985, for Eyes on the Prize: America's Civil Rights Years (1954-1965). Washington University Libraries, Film and Media Archive, Henry Hampton Collection.
These transcripts contain material that did not appear in the final program. Only text appearing in bold italics was used in the final version of Eyes on the Prize.
JUST HOLD THAT LIGHT UP. THERE YOU GO.
GREAT. CALLIE, IT’S ALL YOURS. WE’RE ALL SET.
OK. RACHEL, YOU WERE NINE YEARS OLD IN 1965. HOW DOES A NINE-YEAR- OLD GET INVOLVED IN THE VOTING RIGHTS CAMPAIGN?
Well, mostly we have our parents to depend on, plus we had many great leaders to help us to understand the meaning of voting rights. My father was one of the great participant of the voting rights. He went out door to door trying to get black people to vote. He also was called the black captain so, because all of his help he tried to influence many people. Also there was Dr. King who mostly led me and Sheyann to understanding what it was for black people to get the right to vote. Yes, I was nine. I didn't understand, but 1ike I said we had many people we can depend on. We had our teachers, we had preachers, I had my uncle, my cousins, who—whoever.
OK, TELL ME ABOUT JANUARY 2nd THAT WAS THE FIRST BIG MEETING HERE IN BROWN CHAPEL AND SHEYANN TELLS ME ABOUT HOW YOU ALL SAW PEOPLE OUTSIDE AND CAME BACK. TELL ME THE STORY OF THAT.
OK. Of course, Sheyann, she was—she went to Clark School. I was going to Catholic school which was about three blocks away. Sheyann and I would walk to school together, at least, I would walk her as far as Clark School. Clark School is right across the street from Brown Chapel. We noticed some people was mingling around Brown Chapel and we was wondering what was going on. I had to go on to school. Sheyann, she stayed to find out what was really happening and she did. And that evening when I got home from school, she told me that they was planning a big march to give black people the right to vote. So from that point on we became very involved. We—Sheyann and myself, we led freedom songs. We always greeted Dr. King when he came into the church. We would get up from in the front go to the back when Dr. King would enter to just to sit in his lap and listen to his main question he would ask us, and that was, what do you want? And we would reply, freedom. He would always say, I can't hear you. What do you want? And we would respond in a louder tone of voice, we would say, freedom and justice for all.
After that, we would come back and we would march along with the other people.
OOPS.
EXCUSE ME, WE JUST RAN OUT.
AND MARK.
FLAGS.
OK, CALLIE, IT’S ALL YOURS.
OK, YOU WERE TELLING ME ABOUT GREETING DR. KING. YOU—DO YOU WANT TO—YOU REALLY WANNA TELL ME ABOUT THAT AGAIN? YOU CAN IF YOU WANT TO. IF YOU FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE.
Well, it’s all right. OK.
NOW WHAT ABOUT THESE FREEDOM SONGS YOU WERE TELLING ME THAT YOU ALL SANG? I’VE BEEN HEARING ABOUT ‘EM AND—
OK.
—CAN YOU SING A LITTLE BIT OF ONE OF THEM FOR ME, COME ON NOW
OK, there was many freedom songs we used to sing. Freedom song, at this particular time, meant a whole lot. It was something like, you know, singing a song to carry out a message. Like we was trying to let the people know that we mean—we meant something by these songs. It was great determination and dignity. Freedom—
COME ON. GIVE ME ONE.
—
LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THE FIRST TIME YOU SAW MARTIN LUTHER KING—THAT WAS GREAT.
TELL ME ABOUT THE FIRST TIME YOU SAW MARTIN LUTHER KING, WAS IT, WAS IT MAGICAL? WAS IT SPECIAL? THE VERY FIRST TIME YOU WERE NINE YEARS OLD AND YOU SEE THIS MAN.
Oh, yes, because all the people was gathering and it was all whispering saying, this great man coming to set the black people free. To help them get the right to vote, equality, and justice. Equality and justice for all men. And Sheyann and myself were just wondering, who is this great man? Matter of fact, we used to see him on television, hear him on radios, and, finally, we was getting to meet this particular man. When Dr. King came to the Brown Chapel A.M.E. Church, it was just like, oh, like the Lord has come. He was a man of great dignity and pride. He was a man of great admiration. A man in which all people believe in and love. Dr. King overcome [sic] all of this for black people. I don’t think—I think without, Dr. King power and concern for black people, I don’t think we would have overcome. Back then, my parents, they couldn’t vote. Matter of fact no black people could vote. Black people could not go into no public places. We could not go into theatres, movies, libraries. We could not even use the water fountain of our choice. We could not go into the Courthouse. Just imagine not being able, I mean, just free to do these things.
If you can’t vote, you ain’t free and if you ain’t free, well then, you’re slave.
So, therefore, we were slave. We didn’t have our freedom.
LET ME ASK YOU SOMETHING. PRETEND THAT I’VE NEVER SEEN A PICTURE OF DR. KING AND DESCRIBE HIM FOR ME THE WAY YOU SAW HIM THEN. YOU KNOW, LIKE WHAT DID HE LOOK LIKE? YOU KNOW, SHORT, TALL, BIG, WHATEVER. HOWEVER, HE LOOKED LIKE TO YOU AT THAT TIME.
Dr. King was a man with a deep voice. When he spoke it touches you. Everything he said had a meaning to it. Dr. King, he was a dark complexioned man, black is beautiful, he was black. He was medium height, kinky hair,
DID HE LOOK—
—beautiful eyes. He always wore a suit when he presented himself to come here to speak. He always had on his marching shoes. Dr. King was a man I could never forget. He is a man I will always remember, even today, as we sit here in Brown Chapel Church, I can remember him standing up there speaking, telling each and every one of us, one day children we’ll walk together, both black and white, and say, free at last, free at last. Thank God almighty, we're free at last.
LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT YOUR HOUSE. YOU'RE PARENTS UNLIKE SHEYANN'S PARENTS WERE VERY MUCH INVOLVED AND A LOT OF PEOPLE STAYED AT YOUR HOUSE.
Right.
CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT—CAN YOU TELL ME THE STORIES OF THE PEOPLE STAYING THERE?
Oh, yes. One morning I woke up and it was many people there, both black and white. People were sleeping on the floors behind the couches. Anywhere they can get. It was an enjoyable time. It’s—it was a good experience for me, you know. It was eleven of us and we lived in a five bedroom apartment right next to the church. My father was the first to take in shelter for the civil rights workers. Our home was called the second freedom house. We, my parents, I did, we influenced other project people to take in these people.
THAT WOULD BE THE FIRST TIME THAT A LOT OF WHITE PEOPLE HAD STAYED AT YOUR HOUSE THEN.
Right, right. That’s the first time white people stayed at my house, yes, indeed. And, you know, of course, I was wondering what was going on.
I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT ANOTHER TIME, THE DAY OF THE TEACHERS MARCH.
I THINK YOU’D BETTER LEAVE THAT.
NO—OK.
THAT’S TO KEEP US ALL AWAKE.
AND FLAGS.
ALL RIGHTY.
IT’S HOT.
IT’S ALL SET, CALLIE.
OK. TELL ME ABOUT THE DAY THE TEACHERS MARCH; WHAT, WHAT IMPRESSED YOU MOST ABOUT THAT?
Oh, well, just to see the teachers participating in the marches. Simply because back in the ‘60s the teachers would not march. We gave them a name. We called them Uncle Toms.
and it was teachers, then, was somewhat like up in the upper class, you know. People looked up to teachers then and looked up to preachers. They were somewhat like leaders for us back then,
but once they got out, seems like more black people start, you know, taking part in the movement.
WHEN YOU SAW THEM COMING DOWN THE STREET WHAT DID YOU THINK?
Well, I guess, they was tired of being called Uncle Toms, because it, it just seems that a way, just—that, that is the way, that’s the way they were. You know, we out trying to get the black people the right to vote and they, I guess, the main thing they was concerned about was losing their jobs. Most of them was afraid of losing their jobs. Mainly they was just afraid. You know, simply because of the riots and what may break out and everything. So it was good to see them once participate in the marches.
NOW, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT WAS A REAL DANGEROUS TIME THEN JUST—DURING THE WHOLE VOTING RIGHTS CAMPAIGN. PEOPLE GETTING BEATEN ALL THE TIME, FEW PEOPLE GETTING KILLED. WERE, WERE YOU SCARED?
Of course. Sometimes, I was and sometime I wasn’t. I felt—
LET ME ST0P YOU. START YOU AGAIN AND ASK YOU TO JUST TELL ME, BECAUSE PEOPLE WON'T HEAR MY VOICE. JUST SAY, NO YES, I WAS SCARED OR WHATEVER. JUST PUT IT IN THE SENTENCE FOR ME, SO—
OK.
SO OTHER PEOPLE WILL UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT.
OK.
SO, WERE YOU SCARED?
Yes, I was afraid. Sometimes I was and sometime I wasn't. Because this particular time Dr. King always led peaceful nonviolent marches. This is the main reason why I wasn't afraid until Bloody Sunday, yes indeed. I was afraid. My parents was afraid, peop—black people, people in general was afraid. There was gossip about there was gonna be a riot break out. There was gonna be tear gas, billy-clubs, people was gonna get killed or what have you. My parents told me not to march. Although my father, he participated in it. My father was sprayed with tear gas, he was beaten with billy clubs.
Sheyann and I went to the Edmund Pettus Bridge, there where I turned around and left Sheyann, simply because, I'm telling you, I, I was afraid.
I was on my way back when I turned around and heard all the yelling and screaming. People running and shouting. People was hollering, tear gas, run. Run for your life. People are being killed. And this was the time when I was almost ran over by this postman. And this was the time when Frank Sirocco picked me up and carried me to the house. John Lewis, Hosea Williams, Albert Turner, these was just some of them who was beaten.
AND, AND I JUST WANT TO GET BACK TO YOUR FEAR OF WHAT WAS, WHAT WAS HAPPENING.
OK. WE CHANGE C—SOUND ROLLS.
OH, OK.
FLAGS. SPEED RIGHT IN THE—SMACK IN THE MIDDLE HERE. GO AHEAD.
EXCUSE ME.
IT’S HOT.
OK, CALLIE, IT’S ALL YOURS.
OK. I WANNA TALK TO YOU BACK BEFORE THE MOVEMENT PEOPLE CAME AND THE ACT—MOVEMENT PEOPLE—THE ACTIVITIES STARTED. I CAN’T GET MY QUESTION RIGHT. WHAT WAS IT LIKE JUST TO BE A KID HERE IN SELMA? WAS IT FUN OR WHAT WAS IT LIKE?
What was it like being a kid? Well—
IN SELMA. START THAT AGAIN AND TELL ME IN SELMA
IN SELMA.
What was it like being a kid in Selma? In Selma, in the 1960, being a kid, I would say, well, back then they treated you just like you were adults, simply because my sister, who was twelve at the time, was put into a sweatbox. My two older sisters was, was thrown in jail. Even myself, I was almost ran over. When we used to march, they wouldn’t take the smallest kids in, but some they would. Seems like to me they was going by their heights or—
I'M GONNA INTERRUPT YOU, CAUSE I WANT YOU TO TELL ME BEFORE THE MOVEMENT.
Oh, before, oh OK.
BEFORE THE MOVEMENT, WHAT WAS IT LIKE BEING A KID IN SELMA?
OK.
WHAT IF THERE HAD BEEN NO MOVEMENT?
If there hadn't been no movement, we wouldn't have been free. To me, I was going to a Catholic school, going to a Catholic school at this time was great. We had white nun teachers, but the movement made everything possible for better life for all people in Selma. It could be better. It’s much more need to be done, but yet there still, I feel, personally, my feelings is, my parents are free. When they are free, I feel I am free. Therefore, the movement made a better life.
THAT IS IT.
GOOD.