Material is free to use for research purposes only. If researcher intends to use transcripts for publication, please contact Washington University’s Film and Media Archive for permission to republish. Please use preferred citation given in the transcript.
© Copyright Washington University Libraries 2016
Interviews were filmed on 16mm with audio recorded simultaneously on ¼ inch audio tape.
This collection consists of 115 transcriptions of selected interviews filmed by Blackside, Inc. for the Eyes on the Prize: American's Civil Rights Years 1954-1965 documentary series that premiered January 21, 1987 on PBS. The transcripts are retrospective eye-witness accounts of events that took place during the American Civil Rights Movement from 1954 to 1965. Additional transcripts will be added to the collection as they are prepared.
Washington University Film and Media Archives supervised the editing of transcriptions to correct transcriber errors which included spelling of names, places, etc. using Microsoft Word; however grammatical errors made by speaker were left alone. Transcriptions were then cross-checked by listening to the interview for accuracy and completeness.
Digital Library Services performed additional regularization and spelling correction (files should undergo separate spell check process).
Although these files represent transcriptions of speech, they have been encoded with the Tag Set for Drama, instead of Transcriptions of Speech.
The rationale for this decision was that the more formal character of the interview had a structure closer to the drama than the speech tag set, and for ease of delivery of XML.
Preferred citation:
Interview with Harry Briggs, Sr. and Eliza Briggs, conducted by Blackside, Inc. on October 25, 1985, for Eyes on the Prize: America's Civil Rights Years (1954-1965). Washington University Libraries, Film and Media Archive, Henry Hampton Collection.
These transcripts contain material that did not appear in the final program. Only text appearing in bold italics was used in the final version of Eyes on the Prize.
SOUND ROLLING. CAMERA ROLL 104.
AND MARK.
TEN.
OK, MY FIRST QUESTION IS, WOULD YOU DESCRIBE FOR US WHAT THE BLACK SCHOOLS WERE LIKE HERE IN SUMMERTON? WHAT KIND 0F SCHOOLS THEY WERE. HOW WERE THEY HEATED? WHAT WAS THE, WHAT WAS THE NATURE OF THE SCHOOLS IN SUMMERTON FOR BLACKS?
In, in the late forties? Yeah. Well, it was, it was, it was wood, wood stove, it were—heat by wood.
CAN YOU, CAN YOU START AGAIN? CAN YOU BEGIN BY SAYING THE SCHOOLS—TELL US AGAIN WHAT THE SCHOOL—BLACK SCHOOLS IN SUMMERTON.
Well, course blacks school was heat by wood. Hour before parents have to go in the woods and get wood to give heat for the children. That's the way we begin our suit at. So that's why, when the land come in, that's what give us privilege to make some effort for our children.
WHAT KIND OF A BUILDING WAS IT, WAS IT A WELL-KEPT BUILDING?
No, it was a run-down wooden building. And it was poor heat. Some of the children would go to school eight o'clock in the morning, and some had to leave and come home eleven, so, so the other crew go. It was an overcrowded building.
DID THE CHILDREN CATCH COLD THERE?
Well, them time [sic], air was good for, for, for the children. Because in our house, lock up, air, so cool, cool, a cool house is good for you. So they didn't catch cold, I don't reckon. And it wasn't no bus travel, people used to walk five, six mile. That's why we went to fight for freedom. That's what we called it. So that's why we wants to do something to make it convenient for our children.
WHAT WERE THE WHITE SCHOOLS LIKE?
Well, they had convenience. They had school bus. They had at the time, coal, to burn coal for heat, that what we call it. And so. We had no coal. We only had—used wood.
THEY WERE A LOT NICER, THEN?
Oh, course, quite naturally. They children don't know anything about walking those five mile. We walked much as five or six mile a day to go to school, with a sweet potato in our, in our hand for lunch. It wasn't no lunch program. So, that's what we fight for.
YOU'VE ALREADY TOLD ME, BUT WHY DID YOU SIGN THE PETITION? WHAT WAS IT THAT YOU WANTED TO, TO DO THERE?
Well, we call it for better citizen. At the time, it was equal, but separate, but it didn't, it wouldn't, work out. So we had to work for equal. That's when we started getting help from different lawyers and what not. Cause just like this other case, they throw that out, so then we took up this case to fight. So that's what we fight for, freedom, what we call it. Equal rights: that's what we want all that whole time. And it went from that to Briggs v. Eliot, what's that, education, what y’all [sic] call that?
BROWN V. ELIOT.
Brown v. Eliot. Yeah. That's the story of our history today, Brown v. Eliot. That's where Briggs come in at.
YOU WERE TELLING ME EARLIER ABOUT SOME OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED AFTER YOU AND YOUR WIFE SIGNED THE PETITION. THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED TO YOU AND TO OTHER PEOPLE AROUND HERE WHO SIGNED ON IN THE PETITION. CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT THAT AGAIN?
Well, when we signed the petition, my wife was working a motel. So they let her go. I was working a gas station uptown, so they let me go. So then that's when I tried to farm. I bought me an old mule, and what-not, at St. Northern. And then for—I, I, I was in, in the Army. So them time, they, they was giving you what they call a farm program, at $97 a month. And I farmed for two years, and I could live off that. That's when I leave home. I leave my wife with five children, an old house, with using wood for heat, and I leave here. So I had something to leave for. But I never regret it for what we did.
YOU SAID THAT THERE WERE OTHER PEOPLE WHO SIGNED THE PETITION.
Yes, there were. Annie Gibson. Annie Gibson and—
SORRY, SORRY COULD YOU START THAT AGAIN? THERE WAS JUST A TECHINCAL—
YEAH.
It was Annie Gibson, myself, Bill Riggins, and, and a gang more. I don't know that I could remember name by name, today, but it was twenty-two of us signed this—it was a hundred and some signed, but only twenty-two of us hold on. But all of us lose our job round here. That's why nobody in, in, in Summerton. Everybody run away for better condition.
YOU WERE TELLING ME ABOUT REVEREND DELANEY.
Yeah, well, he finally leave and went to New York. He was a preacher. Then he went to Lake City, after running away from Summerton. And after the Klu Klux Klan get to him, he leave and went to New York. So all of us had to—had our share to go to.
AND YOUR SON—WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR SON AFTER HE SIGNED THE PETITION?
Well, after he finished high school, he couldn't get no job, so he went to Myrtle Beach for the summer. And he had an uncle in New York, so he finally went to him. That's when my wife and children came to me in, in Florida. They stayed one year, then they came back here and my daughter finished high school here, then all of us went to New York, after, after then, you know.
I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU, I, I REMEMBER YOU SAID THAT HE HAD A PAPER ROUTE.
Yeah, yeah, well, he did have a paper. I forget the name of the paper. The Post I think it was.
CAN YOU HOLD ON JUST A SEC.
CAN WE STOP HAVE A MOMENT?
YEAH.
AND MARK.
ELEVEN.
LET ME GET SETTLED HERE. OK, WE’RE ALL SET.
I'M GONNA ASK YOU THAT LAST QUESTION AGAIN. YOU WERE TELLING ME ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED TO HARRY'S PAPER ROUTE, AND, AND OTHER THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED.
Oh yeah. Well, he used to take around the Post, we called it. And after they gave him a hard time across town, and we was afraid for him to go in that section. So he had to quit his paper. So that's when he, after going—finishing school, he went away. He went to Myrtle Beach, him and Tony.
DIDN'T HARRY JR., ALSO THOUGH TRY TO GET A JOB DRIVING—
Well—
BUSES?
Well, he was, we call it assistant driver. But, as I said, after everybody know Harry Briggs, so, when he come as Harry Jr., they said, sorry buddy, you, you won't drive no bus in Clarendon County. And as, as, as I was going to this farm program, there was a principal, a white principal, I was going to Manning, see, that's still Clarendon County, and I wanted to come here, to middle school, he telling me about, you'll never see the day, Harry, you come to this school. You that caused this mess going on now.
HOW DID YOU FEEL WHEN YOU WENT TO COURT AND THE COURTS OF SOUTH CAROLINA FIRST RULED AGAINST YOU? HOW DID THAT MAKE YOU FEEL?
Well, I think at the time, I don't know, I don't know whether we had proper sense or didn't know what we was going into, it, it didn’t worry us too much. Only thing worry me when I couldn't get a job. That's the part really hurt. When you got five kids to eat, and you, you ain't got no job. I had a little money, but you spending out of, out of two or three hundred dollars buying food, you ain't, you ain’t going far. That's what caused me to leave up to Florida, for, for, for, for work to do.
DID YOU THING ABOUT GIVING UP THE CASE?
No, I never did. I never give a thought that if I'd have give up it would have been better for me, because it wouldn’t have. Because they was against black people, especially in Clarendon County. Clarendon County is the—it's the way it's begin here, all over the world, but this case that we fighting today, it started here in Summerton, right here, part of it in my house.
YEAH, YEAH.
AND MARK.
TWELVE.
I WANT TO ASK YOU AGAIN WHAT, WHAT WAS IT THAT—
OH I’M SORRY. I GOTTA—
AND MARK.
THIRTEEN.
LET ME GET SETTLED IN HER FOR A SECOND. OK.
I’D LIKE TO ASK YOU AGAIN WHAT WAS IT THAT YOU, THAT YOU WANTED FOR YOUR CHILDREN? WHY DID YOU EVEN BOTHER TO, TO FILE THE CASE AND PETITION? THEY COULD HAVE GONE TO THE BLACK SCHOOL, THINGS COULD HAVE BEEN MUCH EASIER FOR YOU IN SUMMERTON. YOU WOULDN'T HAVE HAD TO LEAVE AND GO TO FLORIDA. WHY DID YOU DO THAT?
It wasn't but one school. It wasn't such a thing as black and white, only to the black. And, and the black [sic] was so far ahead of us, that we want, we want what they have, should I say it that way? That's why we scuffle so hard to make things convenient for our children. We want them to have equal right. That's what we really went for. As I said back there, we're never sorry for what we did for the benefit of our black children.
GIVE HIM THE LAST QUESTION.
ONE LAST QUESTION. WHAT DID—HOW DID YOU FEEL WHEN THE SUPREME COURT RULING CAME DOWN AND YOU HEARD ABOUT IT? DO YOU REMEMBER THAT DAY—
Well, you mean that we’d win? Sure man. I was in Florida, but I said, I can go back home in peace now. We can, we can go home now and try to live happy again. But I must say that we had white friends. We still have some white people went with us, but with Joy [sic] really gave us a hard time. They said, if you ain’t, if you ain’t an NAACP member, I'm gonna give you hell for not being one, so I'm telling you. So he—today, I never regret what we did or what happened among us, ‘cause everybody proud. As I said, the most of our black, colored children, they don't know about black history. That's mostly why I, I agree with you all to come here, to let the world see what some of the poor Clarendon County—
—people really come through, because it was rough.
WOW.
AND WE’VE JUST RUN OUT.
WE JUST RAN OUT OF FILM.
Just in time.
MARK AND ROLLING.
FOURTEEN.
THAT WAS A FOURTEEN. OK, LOU, IT’S ALL YOURS.
I WANT TO ASK YOU AGAIN, HOW DID YOU FEEL WHEN THE SUPREME COURT HANDED DOWN THE DECISION? HOW DID YOU FEEL IN YOUR HEART WHEN YOU HEARD THAT NEWS?
Well, I said, that's it. I guess we'll have freedom from now on. So then, that's when we began to try and do something for ourselves. Because, my time, we traveled, it wasn't no bathroom for colored people. You couldn't go in these motels, and hotel. You have to, when you get off the bus, it wasn't no bathroom for colored people. You have to run round the building. After we come we have freedom to go in motels, bathroom, we said, we do have freedom now. So I thought that was a great thing for us. Because once we, for people want lunch, we have to go to that window to get, get a sandwich. Now we can go in and sit down.
DID YOU FEEL PROUD?
I'm still proud, real proud of that. Somebody did something for the, for the world, for black history.
WHY DO YOU THINK IT WAS THAT SO MANY WHITE PEOPLE HERE IN CLARENDON OPPOSED YOU AND, AND GAVE YOU SUCH A HARD TIME? DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT THEY WERE AFRAID OF?
No, but I heard a joke. I was a little boy shining a shoe. And this white man said, a foreign man, we call a Yankee, was traveling through, and he said to this man, why are you so hard on the black people here? He said, well, no, they are nice people, but don't give ‘em a chance. So that's what we fight for there—a chance, opportunity.
OK.
WHAT A WONDERFUL—
WONDERFUL
FIFTEEN.
OK AND HIT IT.
GOOD. THANK YOU. SETTLE DOWN AND OK LOU IT’S ALL YOURS.
MRS. BRIGGS, WOULD YOU DESCRIBE TO US WHAT THE BLACK SCHOOLS WERE LIKE AT THAT TIME. WHERE—HOW THEY WERE HEATED. WHAT WAS THE CONDITION OF THE BLACK SCHOOLS IN, IN SUMMERTON?
Well, at that time it was overcrowded. And it was heat by coal, I guess by a little wood, too, but mostly it was heat by coal. And it was sixty, I think, fifty or sixty children at the classroom. It was overcrowded during the time.
HOW MANY CLASSROOMS DID THE SCHOOL HAVE?
I can't remember, but it was going from the first through the twelfth, so I don't know just. I, I don't think they had twelve rooms. I don't think so, but at any time, that's how many children was in that school at the time.
CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE BUILDING, WHAT THE BUILDING LOOKED LIKE, WE JUST SAW A PICTURE OF IT. WHAT DID IT—
It was a wooden building at that time.
WAS IT VERY BIG?
It was a good size, but not, you know, like for the amount of children they had.
WHAT WERE THE WHITE SCHOOLS LIKE? DID YOU SEE THOSE? OF COURSE, YOU SAW THEM.
Oh yeah, well, they had a large brick, no, stone construction, real large, at that time.
I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU THE QUESTION AGAIN, AND WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU—YOU’RE NOT GONNA—MY QUESTION IS NOT GONNA BE HEARD, IN THE FILM, SO IT'S IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO BEGIN BY SAYING, THE WHITE SCHOOL, SO WE'LL KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. WHAT WERE THE WHITE SCHOOLS LIKE AT THAT TIME IN SUMMERTON?
The white school was a large building, large enough to take care of all the children there. And I guess they had—
TURN A LINK—AND MARK IT.
SIXTEEN.
MAKE SURE WE’RE IN THE RIGHT SPOT. OK. LOU IT’S ALL YOURS.
MRS. BRIGGS, WHAT WERE THE BLACK SCHOOLS AND THE WHITE SCHOOLS LIKE IN SUMMERTON IN YOUR OWN WORDS?
I had never been into the white, but the, the black schools were overcrowded, and they, they didn't have, give enough of the subjects to the children. Now the white, it always—it wasn't too crowded, not to me, and it was a large school, enough, I believe they, for them to have room enough to do just what they wanted to do.
DID THE BLACK CHILDREN HAVE BETTER BOOKS OR WORSE BOOKS?
I think they had worse books. When my son finish [sic], he only had four subjects. And I did want him to go to college, but the four books—he wouldn’t be able—wasn't able to make it to college with only four subjects or four books, or whatever you call it. And Carrie Martin told me that they were, don't try to send Harry to college, because he don't have enough learning, or enough semester [sic], to try to make it through college.
WHY DID, WHY DID YOU SIGN THE PETITION WITH YOUR HUSBAND TO, TO CHANGE THE SITUATION HERE? WHAT WAS IT THAT YOU WANTED TO ACHIEVE?
Well, when I was going, I had to walk two-and-a-half mile: cold, wet, just how you get there, you get there, you get there. You wet up, it rain, the whites pass by in the bus. And you be near a mud hole, they speed the bus up to wet you up. To wet you up. So I feel like our children need more education, more facilities, and a better education. So we decided, well, maybe enough for our children, for all who need it. All over the world, let them enjoy some of the good thing.
YOU WERE TELLING US ABOUT SOMEONE—WELL HARRY WAS TELLING ABOUT—TELLING US ABOUT SOME OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED AFTER THE PETITION WAS SIGNED. PEOPLE GOT FIRED. CAN YOU TELL US SOME OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED TO YOU
Well—
AND PEOPLE YOU KNEW?
Yeah it happened to me. I was working at Summerton Motel, and this man, he work us, Greenborough, he work us real good. And the White Council, of Summerton, I think they call it the White Council, they came down there and told him that, if he don’t—didn't fire the women who signed the petition, that they would close the business down. They won’t let the trucks come in and deliver. So then he called us in, and asked all who that signed the petition, would we take our name off the petition in order to work. After all, we had to pay $5 to take our name off the petition. Then I told him, no, I didn't want to do that, because we be hurting the children, and I rather give my job up, and keep my name on there. So in about two week’s time, I was fired. Not only me, the rest of them who had anything to do with the, the petition, they all was fired. Annie Gibson was fired, and many more. And during that time too they—a lot of colored people on the white man place—they made them move, because they signed the petition.
EXCUSE ME.
So they didn't have, well I guess they find a place to go. But when you live on white man place, partly all your life, and when you sign a petition for your children to do better, they come up and say, well you got to go. Else take your name off the petition. And many of the people decided they did not want to take the name off, and they did not take the name off.
STOP FOR A MOMENT PLEASE.
SEVENTEEN
OK, MARK IT. OK, LOU IT’S ALL YOURS.
WHY DO YOU THINK THE WHITE PEOPLE IN SUMMERTON SO OPPOSED WHAT YOU WERE DOING? WHY DO YOU THINK THAT THEY WERE SO HARD ON YOU WHEN YOU SIGNED THE PETITION? DO YOU HAVE AN, AN IDEA ABOUT THAT?
The only thing I can think of is that, I guess they had their way a long, long time. Colored people had to do what they say do [sic]. And they feel like the, the black people ever get a chance, that they'll be able to do something what they had alway [sic] want to do. I had a cousin came down once from Chicago, we went into the drugstore. She asked for a Coke. Told her, we don't, we don’t sell Coke here. I guess in Chicago, she didn't know the difference. So then she asked, what the Coke machine doing up there. He said, well, we don't sell black people Coke, our drugstore. So at the time I was young, and I didn't realize, but still, after we get older, we realize that this is it, now. Our children should have more opportunity. They go to college, university, anywhere they want to. I remember going to Sumter, the crest [sic]. And you couldn't even go in there and sit to the counter, to buy anything. You had to take it in your hand and come on outside. So today, well, most of the time now, you can go anyplace you want to go, sit down and eat, drink, hotel, any, any other places, now, you can go on the bus, the train, especially on the bus. You almost take the front seat. One time before, only one seat, and that be the back seat. Go ahead.
HOW DID YOU FEEL WHEN THE SUPREME COURT DECISION CAME DOWN AND YOU HEARD THAT THE CASE HAD BEEN WON?
I, I was very happy for everybody, not only for myself. We suffered for it. A whole lot. But still, there are other people out there, who need opportunity, which at the time, when I was young, I needed it too, but nobody knew how to make, make a way for it. So I just feel like this was a time to make an opportunity for the, for the blacks who wanted it and who were able to do it.
HOW DID YOU FEEL IN YOUR HEART?
Well, I had a lot of spare time.
So—
WE JUST GONE OUT.
IT’S CAMERA ROLL 106, SLATE EIGHTEEN.
MARKER. THAT WAS AN EIGHTEEN. OK LOU IT’S ALL YOURS.
WHY IS IT THAT—WHY DO YOU THINK THAT THE WHITE PEOPLE OPPOSED YOU SO, SO, SO HARD? WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT THEY WERE AFRAID OF?
The only thing I could think of at that time, that they're afraid of, maybe the white or—and the black mix too much. And I guess they feel that they can keep the black by their self, and the white by their self, that it would have been better off for them. But today, they’re mixing today, I guess. A lot of them, see, today, it's no different in your color now.
HOW DID YOU FEEL WHEN THE SUPREME COURT HANDED DOWN THE DECISION AND YOU HEARD THAT YOU'D WON? HOW DID YOU FEEL IN YOUR HEART?
Real—really happy, and glad, that we didn't lose our case.
DID YOU EVER THINK YOU MIGHT LOSE IT?
No, but I didn't know what the end would be, at the time, because we go to Charleston, you know, and different places. But with Marshall, up in Charleston, during the time, Judge Marshall, he been judge at the time, he was down there. And the white lawyer, I can't remember his name, Plown, he asked the question, Plown had to get his book. But Marshall just started rolling his hands at that, you know. And he just let it out, you know. I feel really glad, because he didn't have to look in the book, to tell what he want to say. He just had it in his mind, he just had to roll his hands, and just let it out. It really was a good feeling for everybody. I won't say everybody, either, because a lot of people didn't like it, because they had to move. Couldn't get credit, we couldn't get credit, either.
STOP, STOP FOR ONE MOMENT.
YEAH.
THIS IS GREAT.
MRS. BRIGGS—
OH SORRY.
NINETEEN.
AND MARKER. OK, LOU IT’S ALL YOURS.
CAN YOU TELL US AGAIN HOW HAPPY AND PROUD YOU FELT WHEN THE DECISION WAS HANDED DOWN? WHEN YOU HEARD ABOUT THAT.
Well, I think that one [sic] of the happiest days, or moment [sic], of my life, when we heard that the Supreme Court handed down their decision. And I think everybody was very happy over it.
THANK YOU.
THANK YOU. THAT'S WONDERFUL.