Interview with <hi rend="bold">Jim & Belva Cotton</hi>

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February 18, 1992 Interview with <hi rend="bold">Jim & Belva Cotton</hi> Interviewer: Interviewee Jim & Belva Cotton Interview gathered as part of Malcolm X. This interview recorded as formal filmed interview.

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Library of Congress Subject Headings, 21st edition, 1998 English created TEI transcript Interview with Jim & Belva Cotton Interviewer: Interview Date: February 18, 1992 Camera Rolls: Sound Rolls: Interview gathered as part of Malcolm X. Produced by Blackside, Inc. Housed at the Washington University Film and Media Archive, Henry Hampton Collection. Editorial Notes:

Preferred citation: Interview with Jim & Belva Cotton, conducted by Blackside, Inc. on February 18, 1992, for Malxolm X. Washington University Libraries, Film and Media Archive, Henry Hampton Collection.

BLACKSIDE -- MALCOLM X 1 JIM & BELVA COTTON CR 22 - 23 SR 1O - 11 DATE: 2/18/92 Box: 9 AC 1630 - 2039 (Misc)

THIS’LL BE INTERVIEW WITH JIM AND BELVA COTTON ON CAMERA ROLL 22 AND SOUND ROLL 10.

Q: ...country,

BELVA:

Mmmmhmmm

Q: well, on a farm. And you lived closer in town...

JIM:

Yes.

Q: ...closer to the (unintell). OK. And and it's important to uh...

CAMERA ROLL 22, SCENE, TAKE 1. TK 1 AC 1714

Q: OK, Mrs Cotton, tell me about Mason, describe it for me?

BELVA:

Mason in 1940?

Q: Yes.

BELVA:

Mason in 1940 was a charming little country town of about 2000 people. Uh er, it had a large rural community, in fact, I lived on a farm outside Mason a couple miles out of town and I went to a rural school until I came into Mason in the 9th grade, which although I was familiar with the town, that was a very exciting event and things changed coming from a one room school to the high AC 1763 school. But it was a pleasant town. We had 2 or 3 black families and uh, many churches

BLACKSIDE -- MALCOLM X2 JIM & BELVA COTTON CR 22 - 23 SR 10 - 11

and the county fair where everybod.., it was a county seat which made it a little more activity

AC 1788

Q: Mr. Cotton, you were more like a city kid though cause you....

JIM:

That's right. I w.., when I uh, we moved to Mason when I was 4 and then we moved down in the house where we were living when uh, 1940, uh, in about uh, well, we'd been living there probably 5 or 10 years at that time. And Mason was a friendly little country town, although we were under the shadow of Lansing which is only 12 miles away, and many of the people living in Mason, worked in Lansing. It was kind of a bedroom 1837 community as well as the county seat and as well as the uh, local farm community. But, Mason had pretty, pretty trees and pretty streets the shaded streets and we would walk to school. [1856 Malcolm Little lived about 2 blocks from where I lived and we used to meet on the corners. We walked toward school.1866] And we would walk about another 3 blocks up and we'd be at school which was really very AC 1873 handy. And in this same school people went from kindergarten through High School. And

BLACKSIDE -- MALCOLM X3 JIM & BELVA COTTON CR 22 - 23 SR 10 - 11

then if you really wanted to you could go one more year and become a school teacher back in AC 1888 those days. When [1891 Malcolm came to town, when uh, we were in the, I think it was in the 8th, 7th grade, and uh, he was a very fine, tall, skinny young guy and ha.., he could tap dance which was really fascinating to me. He just had a great sense of rhythm and just, it was exciting to see him and I, that was one thing I would always ask Malcolm to do is to dance for me Malcolm. And he would. He was uh, he was a great friend.1937]

Q: Tell me, tell me first meeting him. Do you have a remem..., a memory of first encountering him.

1946 JIM:

Well I think our first meeting was at school, when we actually uh, when we first met and he came into the school and we met and then we learned that we..., of course when he came uh, he was uh, in fact in our class[1966 he was the only black person that we had in our class. And so we were all anxious to meet him and anxious to visit with him. And he had a great personality, he was a very AC 1979 outgoing person. And uh, and always very polite, and always very calm and uh, just a

BLACKSIDE -- MALCOLM X4 JIM & BELVA COTTON CR 22 - 23 SR 10 - 11

nice guy.1994] One of those kinda people that ya AC 1996 like and so it was.., my first meeting woulda, woulda been in school. And then we learned that we lived near each other. Well it was quite uh, interesting, I said well OK, lets meet together and walk to school. And we used to do that and it was, it was fun. We would, we would walk up the street and then we'd, we’d cut through the backway of the funeral home |out and we always was kinda talk an’ wonder who might be in the funeral home. 2033 An’ that was kind of an....

(Misc) L # AC 2039 MOVING ON TO CAMERA ROLL 23, CONTINUATION Box 10 AC 2500 - 4424 INTERVIEW WITH JIM AND BELVA COTTON. TK2 23 TAKE 2

Q: OK, let's pick up with uh, you're walking to school with Malcolm.

AC 2547 JIM:

Well it was interesting [7549 Malcolm and I used to walk to school and sometimes, my neighbor who was Roland Dart who is presently the President of the Dart National Bank in Mason, uh, used to like to fight. And so we always called him Toughy Dart. So Toughy Dart, and Malcolm and I would often walk to AC 2575 school. An’ as we went to school, the short

BLACKSIDE -- MALCOLM X5 JIM & BELVA COTTON CR 22 - 23 SR 10 - 11

cut would take off a corner of the, of the block would be uh, to go a.., around this.., AC 2587 the funeral home. And so, when we did that we always kinda wondered who might be in there and we'd quicken our step a little bit as we went by this short cut to be sure that we uh, we made it. Actually, it was between 2 funeral homes that we went, an’ then it was only about another block before we were in s.., at school.2612] But Malcolm was a great uh, a great friend of many people. He was uh, he 2622 was enjoyed by the class. He was uh, he was in uh, it was in the class that we uh..., and [[2632 I had the honor and the privilege to uh, nominate him for president of our class as we held nominations and elections and he was elected.2647] So, uh, an’ uh, he's a.., it was, it was interesting and it's been interesting to follow his career through the years as we've been ha.., uh, gone our separate ways. So...

Q: and, Mrs Cotton, you had ’im in Biology class...

BELVA:

I do...

AC 2672

I'M SORRY. . . , PULL MR. COTTON’S JACKET DOWN.

(Misc). BLACKSIDE -- MALCOLM X 6 JIM & BELVA COTTON CR 22 - 23 SR 10 - 11 TK 3

WE'RE ROLLING TAKE 3. AND THERE'S A MARKER.

PAN TO BELVA AC 2690 BELVA:

I think we need to consider that [3694 Malcolm came from Lansing and had been around a lot. An’ he came to this small town of Mason, so he was fascinating. He knew lots of clever tricks an’ his personality was, was uh, certainly more cosmopolitan, so we were quite fascinated by the stories he told and by his sense of humor.] [I met Malcolm first in the 9th grade, when Izcame in from country school. So, I not only had the excitement of 2735 coming into the big city school, but I sat right across from Malcolm in Biology class. We sat around long tables. Biology class was. a very open class, as classes went in those days, where usually we all sat in one chair an’ a desk an’ you spoke when you were spoken to. But Biology was quite relaxed an’ I remember Malcolm as being uh, very humorous, very polite, very c.., cooperative and fun to watch. You, if something nee.., needed to be done or the teacher asked for something, he was probably a little more outgoing than the AC 2794 rest of us and he would volunteer his services or..., of course, there are lots of

BLACKSIDE -- MALCOLM X 7 JIM & BELVA COTTON CR 22 - 23 SR 10 - 11

quips and I notice.., [I've seen pictures of AC 2810 him as an adult, an’ he was a very tall youngster too, an’ these pictures of him as adult, an adult, he's often s.., sitting, sliding down in his seat. And that's exactly the way he sat in Biology an..., an’ the middle of his back was on the seat of the chair practically and his long legs are all over...2839]

Q:””He seemed to.., Malcolm seemed to do pretty well, in, in Mason when he got here. Kinda negotiating his way through a, a place that he didn't know very much about uh..., 2855 uh, what do you think, what qualities did he have that seem to, to work well for him. Begin to describe him to me as you remember him. Uh, you, you both remember him during that time. Paint a picture of who Malcolm..., what Malcolm was like?

JIM:

Malcolm uh, was a uh, a tall young man. He was, he was concerned. Malcolm had had a lot of trauma in his life prior to his arrival in Mason. An’ he was..., he was a great, he loved his family very deeply. He AC 2894 was a very devout family person. And he loved his brothers and sisters and his mom,

BLACKSIDE -- MALCOLM X8 JIM & BELVA COTTON CR 22 - 23 SR 10 - 11

and uh, and he was..., it was difficult for him to be separated. An’ they were able to AC 2910 get together quite frequently which was, was always good. Malcolm always enjoyed that an.., and uh, would talk about it and would come back much more relaxed, It would seem..., it would uh, [2927 it was difficult being the only person, the only black person in the high school, and uh, and it was.., it uh, it caused some tension which he handled very well. And I remember that Malcolm was on the basketball team, an’ the Jr. High basketball team. I was too. I was tall, an’ he was taller. An’ he was more coordinated than I 2959 was, but we, we made the first cut and uh, it was, it was fun playing basketball.2970]

Q: He was.., you said that, that, it, it was tough being the only black person in the school an.., he had to negotiate..., like what kinds of things did he have negotiate his way through. (unintell). Help me understand what it was like.

JIM:

Well, Malcolm always..., I think one of the strong points of Malcolm was the fact AC 2994 that he would, he always got along and he was always willing to cooperate and to uh, uh,

BLACKSIDE -- MALCOLM X 9 JIM & BELVA COTTON CR 22 - 23 SR 10 - 11

but, not this doesn't mean that he would.., wasn't an idea man. Because he was. He had AC 3012 lots of good ideas. And he ha..., and as uh, as uh, as Belva has said he's...[3021 he hid been places. He'd had a different lifestyle. He come from the big city of Lansing and, and other uh, places. So he, he was more experienced than many of us, but he brought those experiences in a, in a very positive way, so...

BELVA:

I think often he probably was frustrated because [we didn't know anything about the social problems of uh, of a black person, Eh, er, we were very naive, an’ the 3065 world was all our townish. You know. And uh, I think I can remember times when he, I sensed that he was frustrated with uh, just, uh, just the differences.3090]

Q: When he um, uh, you nominated him to become class president, uh, uh, he.., he must ’ave made an incredible impact on the school , an me..., you know, in a very short period of AC 3108 time to, to um, reach you know, that kind of um, popularity, (unintell) How did that happen?

BLACKSIDE -- MALCOLM X10 JIM 8 BELVA COTTON CR 22 - 23 SR 10 - 11 AC 3120 JIM:

Well, [3121 Malcolm did make a tremendous impact uh on Mason in the Jr. High School when he came in because he was such a dynamic individu1al.3133]] He was a great leader. He had a natural ability for leadership. Yet he had a great humility about 'im as he did this. And uh, but never, never a uh, not, that humility was true humility. It wasn't a uh, backing down or a cowardice in any way, or non.., did I ever feel he was arrogant. He never ha.., gave that impression to me.[3167 And, but people liked him. You know,[they liked Malcolm. 3172 Malcolm was uh, the kind of person..., he had a smile on his face, and he remembered people's names. And he called people by name, and everybody knew his name so that wasn't a problem for anybody else, but, but it er, he was very good at remembering names,] an’, an’ being friendly wi.., to people. An’ so that was a great. And [he moved, he moved gracefully. He really did. He had a great movement about him, and he was a, he was a AC 3210 fine young man..,3212]so...

Q: How co.., do you.., I remember when we talked before Mrs Cotton, I asked you to uh, to picture 'im coming down the hallway, and

BLACKSIDE -- MALCOLM X 11 JIM & BELVA COTTON CR 22 - 23 SR 10 - 11

you kinda painted a picture of ’im, coming towards you. De.., de..., describe this person coming down the hallway. What did he look like, what was he like at that age?

AC 3232 BELVA:

Well, two shot a tall, uh, uh, skinny, very relaxed uh...

Q: Tell me who you're talking about.

BELVA:

Uh, excuse me.[3244 Uh, Malcolm uh, I have an image of him coming down the hallway of the high school. He was a tall relaxed young man but instead of uh, uh, just walking down, he was kind of loose an’, an’ uh, sort of like a puppet in all his joints, kind of moved uh, loosely and he walked uh, with, 3274 with rhythm and like he enjoyed life, an’ like life wasn't too difficult.3280]]

Q: That's a good description.

BELVA:

An’ it’s..., the other thing Jim said about his remembering names. I remember that. [3291 Coming in from the country school, an’ I ha.., have a very different name, Belva. An’ I can remember that uh, he remembered my AC 3302 name, which was quite, quite a thing in those day.]]3311

BLACKSIDE -- MALCOLM X12 JIM & BELVA COTTON CR 22 - 23 SR 10 - 11

Q: OK. Uh, uh, so, when he was nominated for class president, he.., he became the class president.

JIM:

Yes he did.

Q: How did he serve as the class president?

AC 3322 JIM:

Oh, fine. I, the, in those days the, the class president was a member of the student body..., I mean the uh, student counsel. And so he would got to the student counsel meetings and repre..., us there and uh, the uh, the responsibility was an honor, and there was some responsibility, but there wasn't a lot of, of uh, responsibility or things that ya had to do except that he was a 3360 member of the student counsel and he was our representative, eyy.., because of his uh, office.

Q: What was this uh, what was he uh, he was here..., that there was a detention home, what was that detegtion home like...?

JIM:

[Well, [3378a detention home was a juvenile home, is really is a better word for it, an, and all kinds of young people ha.., came into that home. Uh, primarily it was a, a place AC 3396 for foster children an’, and uh, an’ Malcolm went into the foster child situation. An’ he

BLACKSIDE -- MALCOLM X13 JIM & BELVA COTTON CR 22 - 23 SR 10 - 11

thought very highly of the people an’ the people who ran that home were just great, AC 3412 great people. They were..., they were, they were in tune with young people of all, with all different kinds of problems. An’ uh, so Malcolm was in there with, with, as.., and he had his, his own uh, room. An’ place to stay, but he was there as a, a ward of the, of the uh, of the county.3440]] And that's where he was placed.

Q: (unintell) the other kids who were there, did he seem different from the others, did.., was it something that they had to kinda work 3452 their way through being uh, a part of the um, the foster home, there was it.., their naturally accepted into the school, an was it an easy transition coming into uh, living there and being a part of the community here?

JIM:

Uh, yes, I think it was. I don't, I don't know....

BELVA:

There was no stigma, we had several outstanding students from uh, uh, the.., that lived in the home, just because they needed a AC 3488 place to live. And I don't uh, I never felt that there was a stigma to it.

BLACKSIDE -- MALCOLM X 14 JIM & BELVA COTTON CR 22 - 23 SR 10 - 11 PAN TO JIM JIM:

And Malcolm was one of those AC 3498 outstanding people who, who, who lived there for a while an, and uh....

Q: He uh, he left Mason after the 9th grade, did you notice, or uh, his.., any change in him as he moved through that last year, that might 'ave said that he wanted to go and uh... We're rolling out so....

(Misc) 3524

MOVING ON TO CAMERA ROLL 24. IT’LL BE MALCOLM SOUND ROLL 11, CONTINUATION OF INTERVIEW.

(Misc) ROLL 24, TAKE 4. TK 4

Q: Mrs Cotton later in life you encountered Malcolm again, tell me how uh, what happened and how that happened, uh, what happened once you encountered him again?

BELVA:

It was interesting. I was a student nurse in Detroit, actually at the Henry Ford 3561 3563 Hospital and it was right, [3561 it was 1947,3363] an' AC 3563 transportation was a problem, so I often took the train from Detroit to Lansing, it wa.., ah, I was about 2 months from graduating an’ I was on my way home, an’ I got on the, on the train, picked up a book to read, an’ I

BLACKSIDE -- MALCOLM X15 JIM & BELVA COTTON CR 22 - 23 SR 10 - 11

noticed afta' I'd been on a short time, three tall, uh, very well dressed young black men AC 3596 came an’ walked passed me an’ sat down. It was a.., [3607 1947, they had wonderful Zoot suits. All the young men had them an’ these..., they were, big shouldered, an’ narrow, narrow pants, an’ chains, an’ slouch hats, an’ oh, their wing tipped shoes, they were just marvelous and they just kind of, they just kinda float along. These young men went down the train, an’ sat down the aisle opposite me. An’ we'd probably been on the train 10, 15 minutes an’ one of them stood up and came 3648 back and sit in the seat opposite me, an’ he said uh..., well before he sat down he said, you don't know who I am do you. An! I looked up at him and a lot had happened, you know, at that age, you're really busy an’ I hadn't thought of Malcolm X since 9th grade an’, I looked up an’ I said, well, of course, I know who you are. It was, it was fun, an’ it was Malcolm X. An’ he..., or Malcolm Little, as I knew him then. An’ he sit down, the seat opposite me, an’ we sat and talked about AC 3692 Mason all the way to Lansing, which was about a 1 hour ride. An’ he was.., it was another

BLACKSIDE -- MALCOLM X 16 JIM & BELVA COTTON CR 22 - 23 SR 10 - 11

pleasant experience. He asked about many of the people in Mason, he asked about uh, zoom mutual friends. [One of the interesting AC 3714 questions he asked me, he said, Oh, tell me whatever happened to Jim Cotton. An’ I said well, it's really not what happened to Jim Cotton, but of what's going to happen to him in a couple a months, an I showed him the engagement ring I was wearing. Cause Jim an’ I were to be married in a couple months, September, but uh, he was most polite and interesting person.] At that time, I, he was 3751 on his way to Boston,3754] and the, as I read his book later, why uh, he was making lots of trips apparently from Detroit to Boston, but he told me that he was in business in Boston, and often came through Detroit. But he was always very polite, and very appropriate and it was, I think he had as enjoyable a visit as I did. It was nice.

Q: Now, as um, um, you know in later years, Malcolm you know he goes to prison, comes out, he becomes a minister for the Nation of AC 3805M Islam and a national figure. Uh, how are you, are you connecting that this person who is Malcolm X, is the person that you as, that

BLACKSIDE -- MALCOLM X 17 JIM & BELVA COTTON CR 22 - 23 SR 10 - 11

you knew as Malcolm Little, and when did it become clear to you that this was one and the same person?

JIM:

(unintell).

AC 3833 BELVA:

Well when uh, uh, when we read Malcolm's book, we were living in Germany at the time an’ so, word hadn't come through to us. We didn't know what his activities were and the last, actually the last time that we had, I had talked with him was that time on the train, and we were disappointed, sorry that he'd had so much trouble in his life, but I don't think either of us were surprised 3868 at his leadership ability. At.., that seemed just a natural.

JIM:

Mmmmhmmm. Yes, [3877 Malcolm always had the uh, ability to uh, uh, be upstanding and people would listen to him. People would look at him and look up to him, well he was tall, but, more.., more his personality than, than that. And so I was not surprised that Malcolm had uh, risen to the heights of leadership that he had. Uh, I really wasn't. I, he had the potential,3913] uh, and uh, an’ I AC 3916 was, I was really impressed with what he was doing an’ what he was doing with his life.

BLACKSIDE -- MALCOLM X18 JIM & BELVA COTTON CR 22 - 23 SR 10 - 11

I, I didn't understand everything, but I felt that he, he really felt very strongly and had AC 3933 a strong conviction of his uh, his beliefs and what he was doing. And I was impressed favorably impressed by that.

CAN WE CUT A SEC.

Q: Um, just to get some clarity, did.., were you aware of him while he was uh, still alive and a part of the Nation of Islam.

JIM:

Well I was, I wa.., we were aware of him while he was still alive, and uh, he was in the newspapers, you know.

Q: OK, so you, you had, you ...

JIM:

...knew, and I knew that Malcolm X was Malcolm Little because uh, when he first changed his name, a lot of his history an’, and the Lansing connection came out.

Q: Mmmmhmmm.

JIM:

So yes,I knew that.

Q: Uh, when did you, when did you uh, move to Germany, what year was that?

BELVA:

1960.

Q: 1960.

JIM:

Mmmmm.

Q: So you were in the states during the 50's, um..

BLACKSIDE -- MALCOLM X19 JIM & BELVA COTTON 3 CR 22 - 23 SR 10 - 11 JIM:

Mmmmhmmm.

Q: Did you remember the uh, film that uh, was done by uh, did it air nationally the Mike Wallace film, that Haight, that Haight produces when Malcolm was..., that was on the Nation of Islam, and I think Malcolm was featured in that uh, in that television piece.

JIM:

No, I don't remember that.

Q: But you remember the, the articles that were being written...

JIM:

..in the newspapers.

BELVA:

We spent also 4 years in the 50's in Japan.

Q: Oh, I see.

BELVA:

And we had no television in Japan.

Q: Oh, that's a good idea.

BELVA:

It was a good idea. We came back and decided we wouldn't have television...

JIM:

Yes.

BELVA:

...till our boys.

JIM:

our children were all next door, an’ we couldn't get ’em home, they were

Q: That's right.

JIM:

...watching the television. So we had to break...

BLACKSIDE -- MALCOLM X20 JIM & BELVA COTTON CR 22 - 23 SR 10 - 11

Q: Break down and do it. We've all thought about doing that. An’ then we realize we can't we'd all lose our children, you know.

Q: ... Uh, uh, so, um, when you came, you were in Japan in the 50's and how long were you in the states before you went to Germany.

BELVA:

5 years.

JIM:

5 years.

Q: So, during that time, you were, that's when you read about..., in the papers?

JIM:

Yes.

Q: OK. Um. OK. Oh. OK, OK. Let me think Um. Yeah, so you seem, you.., you're saying in Germany that you’re not really getting news of Malcolm X

JIM:

Well, we got some, we got some..., the Stars and Stripes.

BELVA:

You know I don't really thing we're uh, appropriate for us to talk about his life after Mason....

QUARTER TO 5.

TK 5 AC 3957 JIM:

Well, I remember while we were out of the country in Germany, I remember getting news, it was on the radio and it was also in the Stars and Stripes that Malcolm X had been assassinated. And I remember the, the

BLACKSIDE -- MALCOLM X21 JIM & BELVA COTTON CR 22 - 23 SR 10 - 11

feelings that we had remembering our boyhood AC 3983 experiences together an’, an’ what a fine young man he was. An’ what a, what a powerful leader he had become in his uh, quest for his, his challenge, an’ he had become a dynamic uh, outstanding individual which he was as a young man, as a young boy. And I remember that it was uh, I was very disappointed. I was, I was shocked an’ I was disappointed. I felt a loss. I really did. I felt a loss, it.., with.., uh Malcolm's demise.

Q:You felt you had lost a...

4036 JIM:

zoom Well, I felt that I'd lost a, a person that I'd known, an’, an’ I considered a friend, as a boyhood friend. An’ not that I'd known him, eh, eh, uh, since those days, but I had a, I had a kinship with him because he was a friend. He was one..., he was a.., he was a friend. He was a black man, an’ I didn't, an I think that helped me through my life, as I served in the military. I was exposed to a lot of black people, an’ I AC 4072 enjoyed them. I had a lot friends who were black, an’ yellow, an’ brown, all an’ white.

BLACKSIDE -- MALCOLM X 22 JIM & BELVA COTTON CR 22 - 23 SR 10 - 11 PAN TO BELVA:

...and coming from a small town, ^ you know, you don't get those exposures.

AC 4096

Q: How did you feel..., I, I mean, you, you, you, you experienced his assassination, or news of it the same way?

BELVA:

Well, [4107 when I heard of Malcolm's death, an’ the way it had happened, I think I felt anger, anger brings on tragedy. And uh, I think I really felt uh, he was asking for it.] 4140

Q: That he was angry?

BELVA:

Yes, yes, that he was angry an’ he 4147 had, he had tread roughshod too often.

Q: Did you two talk about this uh, at that time, when something like this happens and you both uh, have a familiarity with this person that you ...

BELVA:

Oh....

JIM:

Oh, yes.

BELVA:

...sure.

JIM:

Yeah, we do we communicate quite frequently, and we did talk about Malcolm and, an’, an’ his life and our memories of AC 4181 him, as.., in our childhood.

BELVA:

Probably the thing that kept it alive, our conversation about Malcolm was the

BLACKSIDE -- MALCOLM X23 JIM & BELVA COTTON CR 22 - 23 SR 10 - 11

fact that in his book, in his autobiography, AC 4195 he mentions Jim name. Well, being in the Air Force, uh, this was big time, when our friends read the book. We...

JIM:

..asked me if I were the Jimmy Cotton. only about 3 people people every called me Jimmy, an’, an’ Malcolm was one of 'em.

BELVA:

So uh.

Q: OK, that's it..., then.., uh, but you were about to say something..., you wanted to say something.

JIM:

Well, the thing that I, wa.., my memory of Malcolm is that he uh, he was a dynamic 4239 individual. He had a, he had a righteous cause. I don't think people fully understood it at that time, an’ I don't know that I did. I think more and more the realization of the need for some drastic action has come forth. An, we've.., we realize now what, what his goal was, and that this was his method. And I think that actually, Martin Luther King, and Malcolm both, had the same goal and they AC 4281 were striving at it in, in their own way.

Q: OK, did you have anything more you wanted to say to us.

BELVA:

No.

BLACKSIDE -- MALCOLM X24 JIM & BELVA COTTON CR 22 - 23 SR 10 - 11

Q: OK.

CUT.

(Misc)

Q: Um, we're going to ask you to describe him coming..., remem..., when, when you have the memory of him in the hallway... AND USE HIS NAME.

Q: ... describe him coming down..., explain that again for me.

(Misc)

SPEEDING TAKE 6.

TK 6

Q: Ok, uh, take yourself back to uh, high school days an’ give me uh, you're, you're memory of Malcolm coming down the hall, or how you remember seeing him.

AC 4319 BELVA:

I remember Malcolm coming down the halls, you know how the narrow dark halls of uh, a high school of 1940's may look like, an’ Malcolm was sel.., seldom alone, he was usually with 3 or 4 other boys, coming down the hall, an’ Malcolm was, would.., was very loose jointed, sort of like a puppet was jointed together, an’ you'd see 'im swingin', ’cause he was tall. Taller than anyone else, AC 4352 an’ his loose arms and loose legs are jus' swingin' along an’ he was usually laughing

BLACKSIDE -- MALCOLM X 25 JIM & BELVA COTTON CR 22 - 23 SR 10 - 11

an’ telling a story or was anything, he was AC 4365 very relaxed and uh, you noticed it.

Q: OK. Good.

THAT'S A CUT.

(Misc)

DID YOU TONE THE...

(Misc) L# 4424