ONE, TWO. THIS IS UH BLACKSI'-, BLACKSIDE'S PRODUCTION OF MALCOLM X SHOW EIGHT HUNDRED. CAMERA ROLL ONE SIXTY-SIX, ON SOUND ROLL EIGHTY-TWO. INTERVIEW WITH YORI KOCHIYAMA. AND IT'S WITH A "K".

Q: OK, tell me about your impression when you first see Malcolm walking down the street.

Q: OK.

Q: Remember you said you had pictures of him?

Q: That's alright.

Q: Yeah, what's your impression when you first see Malcolm walking down the street in Harlem?

personified black manhood. And I could see why so many blacks who although they did not become his followers at that time because the kind of things that the media did to him they really did a hatchet job on him, ah yet it's just that everybody would say that isn't this something to see a um black man being able to iust walk like that with with sss well he seemed to well as I say personify by manhood I mean CG 2660 he was just seemed so strong. And through his life after that as we came to know him we saw how much courage and spirit and dedication and principles he had and also as we came to know him we saw how gentle wait I went way over I should have just said ...

Q: No that's OK. Let me just ask you, when you see him now there are a lot of people walking around the street, what is I mean what do you think what are you sensing from him? Why's he so different?

Q: And you saw that in oops. Are you OK? OK. And you see him even you see that even in his walk?

Q: Now let me ask you um there there there are a lot of diverse ah voices in in Harlem at the time and um why does his attract your attention? If you can give me a sense of the kind of diversity in Harlem at that point, political and stuff why is he seen ...

Q: Yeah, no just start again just ...

Q: OK. Let's try that again.

Q: We'll start rolling.

IT'S FEEDING. AND THERE'S MARK. TWO.

Q: So give me a sense of there's a diversity of Harlem leadership and why Malcolm seems to stand out in the middle of all that?

course he was still fighting for the same thing that the others were for for justice. Ah he was not about going the road of Civil Rights because he didn't feel that black people had to ask the white power structure that we should all go for Human Rights and take it to the United Nations.]2990

Q: Now let me ask you. What are your politics that get attracted to Malcolm? I mean where where are you in all of this, what do you believe in and why is that why does what he's doing tie into that?

Q: OK, OK. Now just give me where you were at that time.

Q: I'm sorry, OK.

Q: That's OK.

Q: Try again and state just that and the question is no, that's OK.

Q: No problem. The question is um why are you attracted to Malcolm from where you are at that time.

Q: So just start again.

Q: And say I wasn't political.

Q: And talk about when you first meet him at the Downstate Medical Center.

Q: How does that happen?

Q: And why are you there?

Q: Oh that's OK, you can just start all over. No problem.

Q: OK, could you just start again and just mention the Downstate Medical Center.

Q: And what the demonstrations are about.

Q: You can just say the date was ...

I saw Vinnie Young one of the core leaders and said is it possible to meet him? And he said, well why don't you go down there. I said yeah, I don't know if I should though. And he said well I don't think he thinks he's God why don't you try it wouldn't hurt. And so I stayed at the outer edge and I kept going closer and closer to the group and then there was a time that Malcolm sort of looked up and noticed me and I guess he wondered what is CG 3341 this old Asian woman doing because I was much older than the rest I was 40 then and um and he although he didn't say anything I did move in closer and finally when he looked up again I said can I shake your hands. And of course he was sort of flabbergasted like and he said, "Well what do you want to do that for?" And he seemed stern and cold at the time and I sss and which sort of ah scared me in CG 3382 thinking well maybe I shouldn't have said anything I shouldn't even be here. Um but yet again I thought oh well I might as well say it I said um I mean it just

blurted ah well I said "I just wanna CG 3406 congratulate you for what you' re doing." and he said "What am I doing?" And I said "We11 it's how you're leading your people, what you're saying to them and what you're, and you're opening their eyes and minds." and ah then I said "But um I just, disagreed with you about something." And so he said "Well what do you disagree with me about?" And I said "Your strong feelings about integration." And he said CG 3450 "Well, I can't give you a lecture in two minutes." He said "Why don't you come to my office." He said, "Do you know where my office is?" I said, "Yeah, I live in Harlem. I live on a Hundred and twenty- sixth Street and your office is on a Hundred and twenty-fifth." He said "Alright, then uh get a appointment with CG 3479 my secretary. " I think he thought then if I live that close I must know something about his group.]]3488

Q: And so now do you do you finally go ah and talk to him? OK, that wasn't correct.

Q: That was perfect, that was perfect, yes it was.You got it 1 precise. It's amazing, no you did.

Q: You got it all the way through.

CUT.

MOVING ON to CAMERA ROLL ONE SIXTY-SEVEN ON SOUND ROLL EIGHTY-TWO. CONTINUATION OF INTERVIEW WITH YORI KOCHIYAMA.

CUT.

READY. SPEEDING. MARKER. TWO.

Q: OK can you talk about in the beginning to go to the Audubon?

Q: Let's hold it a second just, great, a train.

OH. OK. I SEE THE TRAIN.

Q: So we can continue?

YEAH.

Q: You wanna go ahead? Start again.

used to speak a lot about ah the house Negro and the field Negro and ah he would as I say bring it up to the present who were the house Negroes and who were the field Negroes. And I could see then why ah people who were considered more of ah he came from their roots ]]3611 and ah it also makes you tie up with things that you've read like when Dubois himself mentioned CG 3622 those things in that that book in 1903 souls of black folks. Um and then of course he would speak a lot about Africa and there were many quotes that people give that if you ah if you don't support wait, I'm sorry. Wait can, wait give me the right quote about Mississippi. You know if you don't understand what's happening in CG 3659 Mississippi how could you understand what's happening in Africa, something like that is that alright, oh.

Q: Ah as a matter of fact just say it yes that's exactly it.

Q: And and and he used to say.

Q: Malcolm I'm sorry, Malcolm used to say.

Q: And so do you get to get going to the Liberations Movement?

Audubon then he one day said "Would you like to ... ?" Oh should I mention Malcolm?

Q: Yes start again and just ...

Q: Um after you've been going to ...

Q: And what was the Liberation School?

difference in the adult school. And it was just amazing. The children were so young, like only 3 and 4 starting yes and going up through grammar school. And he would give them a lot about the ah even the geography of Africa so that the children would know exactly where Africa is and the different countries and he would mention things like eh I think the CG 3833 longest river in world was the Nile,] a lot of basic stuff.]]3840 Ah and of course for for the adult classes now it wasn't Malcolm teaching all of it it was ...

Q: OK before you go on with that,

Q: That's OK. How does Malcolm relate to these kids?

Q: Oh OK that's alright.

Q: That's OK.

Q: OK, so you see Malcolm at the um adult Liberation School.

Q: OK.

Q: OK, could you talk about going to Liberation School that Malcolm's group sets up?

Q: And seeing him that time.

Q: That one time.

could sit in on the children's classes sometimes and I was amazed at ah first how CG 3951 young the children were. They looked like from about 3 on up to through the grammar schools. And he would give them the basics. Uh a lot of geography about Africa, where the countries were laid out and ah mentioning things like the Nile River was probably the the longest river in the world. And for the adult school it was much more political because he would often I mean often I only went there once, CG 3993 and ah he would combine histor~ ah both African history and African American history. 4007[ But ah the [one thing I remember what he said was that um "A school is not four walls and a roof. A school is whenever you could get one person who's willing to teach and one ~rson who's willing to learn. And that makes a school CG 4036 and that all of us should be well that's what makes education I think. And that all of us should play both sides. Sometimes we are teachers and sometimes we are students."]]4055

Q: What um do you remember how Malcolm taught I mean did was there some way that he related to you as students in the Liberation School? And if you could mention Malcolm's name.

Q: That one time.

Q: That's alright.

Q: Did you have a sense of how he was as a teacher?

Q: Now let's cut it for a second.

Q: What I'm gonna ask you um ...

CUT.

IT'S FEEDING. MARK IT. THREE.

Q: OK, so give me the set up of the Japanese journalist writers coming.

with that group and they wanted to meet Malcolm more than any other person in America.]]4188 And the and the committee members that were organizing this asked if we could have a reception in Harlem at our apartment for the three writers and for Malcolm and of course keeping it open to all Civil Rights activists black and white. And so on that day ah we had this CG 4221 ah planned um but before they came here the Japanese had heard that there was such a thing as the World's Worse Fair in opposition to the World's Fair in Flushing Meadows and they wanted to go there. And so ah ah they walked over there ah while they were walking over there it's amazing that they met people like oh Malcolm I mean oh I'm getting all this wrong.

Q: That's alright you were speaking about Japanese when they were walking to the World's Worst Fair, which was here in Harlem.

Q: OK, speak up.

and bathtubs that wouldn't drain. And so they got a little glimpse of what it's like to live in a ghetto or a place where ah the people who are in power never gave attention to. And then they came here and 4389[[ at the beginning we really didn't know if Malcolm was gonna show. It was June, it was only three months after he bolted from the Nation of Islam and there were so many rumors that he would be killed before the end of May and here it was June. And CG 4409 people said "Why would he take a chance to go to a stranger's place when his life was in danger?" But, he did show and I tell you when he came in people the place was jam packed.]]4428 I mean they were packed from I mean there wasn't a space in in this you know the livingroom or the kitchen, all the way down the hall and we stuffed people into every room. We had four bedrooms. [4446 Ah and everybody wanted to CG 4449 shake his bands. I mean [most people had only read all the terrible things the newspapers were saying and they were so uh surprised to find him such a a gracious

kind of person and so warm. He shook hands with everyone black or there were Latinos and a few Asians.]]4480 Um and then when he spoke I mean a of course you could almost here a pin drop but even though this place was so jam packed. It was so quiet when he spoke and it's too bad we didn't have any ah tape to record anything. But just a few things that I remember. One was that he thanked them for going to the ...

Q: I'm sorry, we're all out of tape.

IT'S GOING, IT'S GOING DOWN HERE.

CUT.

Q:A couple of sayings.

Q: And then keep ing around and then after you've do that eight and eight then um stretch it this way.

ONE TWO. THIS IS BLACKSIDE'S PRODUCTION OF MALCOLM X SHOW EIGHT HUNDRED. CONTINUATION OF INTERVIEW WITH YORI KOCHIYAMA. AND UH THIS WILL BE SOUND ROLL EIGHTY-THREE AND CAMERA ROLL ONE SIXTY-EIGHT.

Q: Do the same one.

CUT.

Q: Yes.

Q: ~ Oh so when he comes into the room.

Q: (Unintel) he shake everyone's hand.

Q: Oh, you want that part too. OK OK, so yes you do you do wanna say that that she wasn't sure if he could come because of the (unintel) on the street.

CUT.

Q: So if you just say um that you were surprised when he comes and then ...

Q: I'm sorry if you could start again. Just mention why you were surprised.

Q: But you're remembering to say Malcolm, which is great.

from the Nation of Islam at the end of March and there were so many rumors that he would be killed by the end of May and here it was like June sixth ah and yet here he did come in and ah people were just packed in every single room and everybody wanted to just see him and touch him. They had read all these years about Malcolm being like a monster and that he was full of hate and all that. But when he came in uh at least the f'-, the two CG 5123 rooms, the livingroom and the kitchen he shook hands with every person whether black or white and there were some Latinos and a few Asians. Um there wasn't any of his own people. I mean there were black people cause one-third were black, but none were his of his Muslims or Eurobus or uh radical blacks. Uh they were all ah Civil Right activists. And of course all CG 5166 the white people were you know Civil Rights and peace activists. But ah they were just so surprised at his ah ah graciousness um his warmth, his almost like total interest in each person as he

met them be would try to repeat their names. I mean ah it just blew people's minds. And then he came in and once he came into the room to speak ah even the Japanese said "No translation. We don't want yeah to break that you know that every time he says a few words they'd have to translate." And, I can't remember everything he said but ah a few of things is first he thanked the Japanese for going to the ah World's Worse Fair instead of CG 5240 going to the big Flushing World's Fair. 5246[ And he said "Well I'm sure you saw a little bit of ah the kind of damage that has been done to my people." [He said "We had a bomb thrown at us." and he said, "And that bomb was racism." Ah he did however mention that of course that bomb that was ah inflicted on the Japanese ah was still visible, the scars of the people.] Ah then he went on to mention CG 5292 about ah we were surprised rather than speaking so much about the black's struggle, he spoke about what be learned in reading when he was in prison. And he

knew so much about Chinese history, CG 5313 Japanese history, just Asian history in general. Ah people were just lifting their eyebrows wondering wow, alright.]]5326 Ah and about Japanese I guess cause these writers were Japanese he said ah Japan was the only country that was not occupied except when they finally lost World War II. But he said because they were not occupied ah and they had never been defeated in war ah they had the kind of CG 5361 strength that such a country ah who had never lost before would have ah and then he mentioned it was that most of Asia was um gosh I can't think of what what's has been ...

Q: Colonized ...

Q: Colonized.

Q: OK, just back up.

Q: And what was the response of the crowd to his speech?

the people I mean it was just a a they were so held in awe. He actually I think electrified the crowd ]5495 and I think people who were even way in the back I mean I think well maybe they didn't hear everything clearly but ah that's why it was so quiet because everybody wanted to make sure that people in the back were hearing this too.

Q: Did people say anything to you? Did any of the Japanese visitors say anything to you afterwards about a response to his his speech?

Q: OK, let me um ask you what then did he often come by your...

Q: No, OK, fine.

Q: Now if you could mention Malcolm.

Q: What did he say. I mean were they chatty letters. What was he saying?

Q: Now if you could mention postcards.

Q: I'm sorry if you could say it without mentioning Paul Lee.

Q: I'm sorry.

Q: Organization there if you could give me.

Q: And when you say historical what kinds of things would I mean they're short but ...

Q: OK. Um let me ask you when you testified at the Trial um what was it like?

Q: At the trial after the assassination.

Q: OK.

Q: Stay with that.

Q: I'm sure go ahead.

handed it to me ah. I was quite surprised and a little bit I guess afraid I I had no idea I would be subpoenaed for this Trial. Ah but immediately I called Conrad Lynn and he told me to come right down and he gave me a lot of good suggestions and counseled me before I went there. And well.

Q: And then what happens when you go to testify?

Q: Did you say a brother?

Q: Oh OK.

Q: Maybe you should just go ahead and cut yeah let's do that.

CUT.

IT'S FEEDING. MARK. FIVE.

Q: Alright. What are these the qualities that most attract you to Malcolm?

Q: I'm sorry if you could just start again what attracts you to Malcolm.

Q: And what impact does Malcolm have on you and your world? Oh, OK.

Q: No not yet, nope. Don't move.

CUT.

SIX.

Q: What qualities do you remember most about Malcolm?

Q: Start again and just say Malcolm.

Q: That's OK.

Q: Yes, OK just take it right back up, no problem.

Q: So the qualities you remember most?

Q: I'm sorry start right he just fell on it, start again.

Q: Let's start again and.

Q: Compromising is perfect, so let's just start again with the qualities.

Q: Yeah, that's fine. Just, no problem. Umhm. What qualities did you admire most about him.

Q: OK, what Malcolm, what impact did Malcolm have on you and your work?

Q: Well, just start again.

Q: OK thank you. Now what I want you to do.

Q: Is go into the assassination.

Q: And just start with when you get to the Audubon.

Q: Well you can just say um

Q: You got to the Audubon the day of the assassination.

in the rows of seats we were in cubicles more or less. Um well the whole place was in an uproar. Ah right after the shooting began. But there was a bro young brother who went right past me and I knew then he must be going up to the stage and I wanted to get up there to and be near Malcolm so I followed him and he knew just how to get up to the stage. And he might have been once a ah security for Malcolm because I CG 6405 thought it was smart what he did was go right behind the curtains to see if anybody was behind there. Then I went right to Malcolm's body had fallen over backwards and I put his head on my lap. And then a short time later someone tapped me and said and can you help at the side and um someone asked me to ah feed the baby the youngest baby needed you know the bottle feeding at the time and so I went to the side room and and fed the baby.]]6453

Q: And do you remember as your cradling Malcolm, what are you thinking?

Q: Show Malcolm.

Q: I'm sorry if you could just start again and

Q: Mention Malcolm's name.

Q: So what are you thinking that moment

Q: While you're cradling

Q: Malcolm's head.

Q: And did they then take]6523 body away from you?

Q: OK, if you could say it again and mention that it's Malcolm's child.

Q: And you go to the back room.

Q: And then what is happening around you while all this going on.?

Q: And doe Betty come too?

Q: Now can you talk about what she's doing at that point?

Q: Do you remember the man who comes to give him Malcolm mouth-to-mouth resuscitation?

Q: Can you just say that this man came and you didn't realize.

Q: That's alright Gene Roberts.

Q: If you could start it with that a man came to give Malcolm mouth-to-mouth resuscitation.

Q: And you didn't know him.

Q: And did you go to the funeral?

Q: What do you think Malcolm's legacy is? I mean what was your what should we take most from him?

Q: I'm going to ask you one more time how it affects what you do? How knowing him affects what you do.

Q: Mm hm.

Q: Now was that new? He said something new?

Q: cut.

WE'RE OUT.

THIS WILL BE ROOM TONE FOR YORI INTERVIEW. AND I'M ROLLING. END OF ROOM TONE.

THIS IS UH SOUND ROLL EIGHTY-FOUR ON CAME ROLL ONE SEVENTY. CONTINUATION OF INTERVIEW WITH YORI KOCHIYAMA.

SPEEDING. MARK. SEVEN.

Malcolm." "Greetings from the Commonwealth Ministers Conference here in London where I am just observing and learning. Brother Malcolm. ]7591

background talking .. little higher - oh

[7595 "Greetings from Kenya the home of those great African Patriots the Mau Mau Freedom Fighters, Brother Malcolm." Well, then I think that's it, I came to the end.]7617

Q: Ok, great

amazing that a man so busy as him would even take the time to send post cards.]7666 (is that all? oh)

Q: Yeah, ..bachground talking, do that one more time, lets do that other one.

THIS WILL BE WILD SOUND OF A POST CARD READING BY YORI KOCHIYAMA. L# 7674

observing and learning. Brother Malcolm." "Greetings from Kenya, the home of those great African patriots, the Mau Mau Freedom Fighters. Brother Malcolm."

Q: Great, ok, .... yeah, um is there enough on this art that she can see where it comes from? Like this one uhm here is says, this is in Cairo. Uhm, this is from Mecca. Wait this is London.

Q: Yeah, just start again with this one uhm is from Egypt.

Q: Yeah. Fine.

London where I'm just observing and learning. Brother Malcolm." Ah, from Kenya "Greetings from Kenya, the home of those great African patriots, the Mau Mau Freedom Fighters. Brother Malcolm." Oh.

Q: Thank you that's perfect.